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Another one out
- Oldie (20th Oct 2022 14:11:14)
Why did they get rid of Boris he would have steadied the ship . Bring him back and give him a free hand .
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Re: Another one out
- Jen (20th Oct 2022 15:32:20)
Fortunately I recognise satire when I see it! đ€Łđ€Ł
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (20th Oct 2022 16:06:10)
Dead serious Jen.
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Re: Another one out
- PR (20th Oct 2022 16:33:12)
The country deserves a general election, but we won't get one, just another Tory imposter ~ total shambles ~ SNAFU
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Re: Another one out
- Ellie (20th Oct 2022 17:30:43)
Um.......because of the following
he faces an investigation and could get kicked out of the Commons, and resigned after a series of mass resignations.
And while he won a general election mandate in 2019, that was pre-Covid, pre-partygate and before it emerged that he knew about sexual misconduct allegations regarding the former deputy chief whip Chris Pincher.
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Re: Another one out
- PR (20th Oct 2022 17:42:56)
OP ~ I think if he had kept a free hand, he would not have been such a Merchant Banker
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (20th Oct 2022 17:55:07)
He had a piece of cake and a glass of wine for his birthday dear o dear so the Labour Party were having drinks and a party but no sacking. Boris is the only man to do the job he has the experience he got us out of the corrupt EU he can get this country going again.
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Re: Another one out
- Ellie (20th Oct 2022 18:18:59)
I'm actually not bothered about the cake and drinks. Rather the sexual misconduct issues and misogyny that goes with the man
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (20th Oct 2022 18:48:10)
Ah yes the green and promised land post Brexit just keeps giving doesnât it, I doubt itâs legally acceptable to use the word Great in Great Britain anymore, the decline means itâs just Britain but how long will that last after Scotland NI and Wales find a way out.
Someone needs to look at the current state of affairs rather than living off long past glory
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Re: Another one out
- Steve (20th Oct 2022 20:19:02)
Anyone who thinks that Johnson's demise was really about a piece of cake hasn't been paying attention đ
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (20th Oct 2022 22:29:22)
Boris was kicked out by his own team, not any other party or indeed the media whoâs job it was to critique his behaviour.
His own team got rid of him, now the same team selfishly conscious their own team is facing a proper demise care more about their own multi home mortgages and expenses and those within that team are only mentioning his return as a last gasp to cling onto power.
Nothing this party is currently doing is in the interests of the citizens of the country, they donât even know we exist let alone understand their job is looking after our best interests.
Boris is a personality but a massive lying failure, we need the country run not a winner of a I think heâs funny contest
The rate of decline itâs shocking, the UK is an utter laughing stock ! And 100% of it is at the hands of the selfservatives
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Re: Another one out
- Ian (21st Oct 2022 07:50:25)
Boris Johnson is unashamedly a LIAR, plain and simply not fit to lead the country. Liz Truss was totally out of her depth. Things need to change radically as across all political parties no-one has any idea how to sort the country out! Perhaps the problem is us, the population? Perhaps we have got the politicians we deserve!
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Re: Another one out
- er (21st Oct 2022 11:41:32)
I think you're right Ian, we live in a society where most of the time, most people are more interested in whose eating kangaroo balls or being eaten by giant rats in I'm a Celebrity Please Revive my Career than whose running the Home Office, please don't discuss politics everyone, or you won't be invited to dinner again, do have another kangaroo ball Aunt Jane!
We got so upset with Boris, but it only really made us mad when we saw him on our tellies having a slice of cake in his garden whilst working from home, Starmer was filmed eating and drinking at a work gathering but his local police thought about it and decided not to create a political earthquake by fining him, sometimes momentous world events hinge on the tiniest of crumbs.
Boris, who had somehow managed to sustain our economic well-being despite unprecedented world calamities, plagues, wars and an energy crises, whilst simultaneously handing out generous benefits to workers and businesses and yet calming the markets at the same time, somehow had the respect of all the main world leaders who mattered, the markets, the IMF, the Bank of England, pension funds, bond investors, but we needed a soap opera not a stable ship, we needed something to be angry about, well now we have our cake so let's enjoy eating it, our politics has become EastEnders and it's like Beal versus the Mitchell's all over again, suddenly everyone wants to watch the Politics Reality TV Show and the world are belly laughing at itđ±
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 12:31:06)
ER you put it much better than I can . Boris did so much good showed the world the the way to do it over vaccinations. All politicians distort the truth no one is perfect. Look at the referendum majority voted out but the remain mob still wonât accept it . Boris is still our best statesman got the most experienced and respected around the world. Itâs time everyone including the public got behind him to restore some faith in our government.
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Re: Another one out
- Penny Williamson (21st Oct 2022 14:35:52)
@ Oldie and er -
1. All Boris Johnson did with regard to the amazing vaccination process was to throw money at it, taxpayersâ money. Kate Bingham masterminded the whole operation and for that her brilliant work has earned her the title of Dame â richly deserved. Under Borisâs watch according to a report by the Public Accounts Committee the total cost of UK Government losses in the response to the Covid 19 pandemic remains uncertain, but it is clear that the taxpayer will be picking up the bill now running into many billions of pounds - which has been lost to fraud and error.
2. Boris initially supported Dominic Cummings who turned out to be a liar over breaking Covid rules and a vengeful one at that as Boris found out to his own cost.
3. Boris supported Owen Paterson, MP in spite of the fact that Mr Paterson was found by parliament's independent sleaze investigator to have broken lobbying rules during his ÂŁ110,000-a-year private sector work. To highlight Borisâs lack of judgement and sound leadership (he is not in the least statesmanlike) he encouraged Conservative MPs to pass a motion in favour of ignoring Mr Paterson's month-long Commons suspension. Consequently the government was accused of âcorruptionâ in seeking to overhaul parliamentary standards rules in an alleged effort to protect the MP. In the face of a huge outcry the government performed a U-turn in the row less than 15 hours later with the promise of a new vote on Mr Paterson's suspension. Mr Paterson resigned which he should have done in the first place. So U-turns are not the prerogative of just Liz Truss.
4. Government Deputy Chief Whip Chris Pincher resigned on 30 June 2022, saying he had "drunk far too much" the night before at the Carlton Club having embarrassed himself and other people. It was later alleged that he sexually assaulted two men and he was suspended as a Conservative MP. On 3 July 2022 six new allegations against Pincher emerged involving behaviour over a decade. It became apparent that Boris knew about Pincherâs past behaviour referring him as âhandsy" and joked about him being "Pincher by name, pincher by nature" in 2020. Boris was asked to explain how much he knew about Pincher's behaviour. Boris stated he was unaware of any specific complaints against Pincher when he was appointed as deputy chief whip. Another Lie. The BBC reported that an official complaint and subsequent investigation into Pincher while he was at the Foreign Office (July 2019 to February 2020) had confirmed his misconduct and that Boris had been made aware of the matter at that time and had been briefed in person by Sir Simon McDonald.
5. I wonât even go into the details of Partygate as I am sure everyone is all to aware of that.
So Oldie and er do you really, really think Boris should come back as PM with all that history? If so why? There are some people who lie and some people who believe their lies. Boris is one of the latter.
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 15:13:30)
Yes if you look at most of it itâs his poor judgment of other people ok so thatâs bad but if you look at all the others no one in any of the partyâs comes close .
Big stitch up over party gate everyone was doing the same labour were worse. So I still think he is the best of a bad lot I think he has the guts to bring us out of this very dodgy time.And looking at the polls and peoples mood I think theyâre fed up with all this back stabbing itâs time our politicianâs grew up .
We need a very strong person to get the country on its feet again someone like Churchill, time and a place and i think he fits.
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Re: Another one out
- Penny Williamson (21st Oct 2022 15:46:45)
No Oldie it is not just his poor judgement of other people although that in itself is bad enough and not a good qualification for someone who wants to become Prime Minister. It is his persistent lying usually to get himself out of trouble. He has no integrity, no honour and certainly no sound judgement. He is not a fit person to lead this country and you seem to be suggesting that he should be chosen because there isn't anyone else. If you think that maybe others do too. What does that say about the Conservative party? Perhaps it is time to call a General Election.
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Re: Another one out
- Steve (21st Oct 2022 15:48:27)
Just out of interest Oldie, how many partygate type incidents involving the Labour Party are you aware of?
It must be quite a few if you think it was worse than what went on in Downing Street.
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 16:04:38)
Steve you only have to see stammer with beer in hand and big party going on behind to know . Big stitch up all round it was the people behind closed doors that wanted Boris out the silent Whitehall people you never see. Did it really matter if any of them had a few beers at Christmas not the end of the world.
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Re: Another one out
- Steve (21st Oct 2022 16:47:21)
Only the one then đ
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 17:29:53)
It was just one he was caught at because he was hiding and got caught through a window. Boris was completely open about his because he thought he was doing no wrong which in my view he wasnât. But does it really matter party gate was completely ridiculous all round. We need to move on and get the country moving again we need to roll our sleeves up get working.
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Re: Another one out
- Steve (21st Oct 2022 17:50:13)
Hmm, completely honest, not convinced about that!
How many times did Boris stand up in Parliament and claim that there had been no breeches of covid rules in Downing Street? It looks quite possible he will be suspended for misleading the house.
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 19:11:13)
Well Steve itâs a big Hmm I agree . But everything aside I canât see anyone in any party with the experience and power to get this country moving. Boris comes close he doesnât care what other people think of him very tough man we need someone with a thick skin to push through tough decisions. Mrs T had the same problem but she stuck to her guns and the country prospered she even hit the French president with her hand bag . If Boris can get a loyal cabinet around him he could do it as Mrs T said if youâre not with me I donât want you. Only my opinion with many years of deferent governmentâs.
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Re: Another one out
- Steve (21st Oct 2022 19:59:36)
Well sadly I've also been around long enough to see many elections and governments of different colours but nothing over that period compares to the current shambles which I believe links directly to the Brexit referendum in 2016.
The one thing that Boris Johnson is clearly incapable of doing is uniting the Conservative party let alone the country! It's almost as if the Party has a death wish.
I will bow out from this debate with a quote from former party leader William Hague.
"I think it's the worst idea I've heard in the 46 years that I've been a member of the Conservative party "
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (21st Oct 2022 21:46:43)
Well Steve great debate but I can see were we differ . You see I think Boris did a fantastic job of getting us out of the EU so corrupt and a complete waste of money our money. So my last post .
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (22nd Oct 2022 00:18:13)
God almighty, what level of IQ do you need to believe Boris did a good job on Covid, the only person whom said that was himself! The rates and numbers of deaths still stands as one of the worst in Europe, and we backed the wrong vaccine to start with.
The highlight of the UK response to Covid was that for 3 weeks we managed to jab more people than other European countries which was boosted about endlessly then when ultra quiet when those other countries took over and accelerated past us. Plus the success of the response wasnât down to Westminster it was down to the people in the NHS.. the same NHS the Tories have been running down for years and want to sell off
Pennyâs correct, he did throw money at it, some of it down the pockets of his mates whilst he was at it,
Am dumbfounded by some of the views on here, people blaming the media yet grounding their own views on tabloid media nonsense whilst they are at it.
I bet those people suffering in North Korea donât comfort themselves with statements like âroll your sleeves upâ or âletâs get on with itâ that is the mid set of the stupid⊠everyone is already busting their aââes to survive here, the problem isnât the people.. itâs the leaders
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (22nd Oct 2022 00:22:22)
Oh and one more thing BREXIT BREXIT & BREXIT
This is where all of those started, itâs why the Tory party are tearing themselves apart and EVERYONE was told it would be a disaster and itâs been nothing but since, Covid no Covid, Ukraine no Ukraine,
This country hasnât stepped ahead since, instead we are now permanently one step behind being rightly laughed at by the rest of the World
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Re: Another one out
- Resident of liphook (22nd Oct 2022 08:19:54)
I do hope for all our sakes Rishi Sunak is elected. At least our economy stands a chance and we can pull ourselves back from being a third world country.
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Re: Another one out
- er (22nd Oct 2022 10:22:03)
Sam, Brexit wasn't 'the Tories' it was 'the people' because we had a democratic vote, whilst I get the regrets, the most important principle here is that a democratic vote was respected, any alternative would have been much worse (in terms of failure of democracy).
I would at least partially challenge the notion that Britain's response to COVID was poor, we were indeed the first country to roll out vaccines and vaccinate the population, we even created the vaccine here.
Sadly we were unlucky, probably due to the open, more international nature of our society and borders than most (ie Denmark, Sweden and Norway who our responses are often compared to). So we got hit early or first with Alpha and Delta and various other serious mutations that required yet new vaccines and we stepped up to the plate, in fact our actions here probably contained and prepared much of the world for these variants and saved many lives globally, come on let's all be proud of Britain guys, it's not ALL in the past, we can still be great occasionally (yes there is a campaign to drop the 'Great' from Britain!
Interestingly, people when attacking Boris, often focus on his trust of others, when they let him down its HIS bad judgement, when they do well it's THEIR genius. Note Penny passing away praise for the successes fighting COVID to Kate Bingham, but dismissing his own contribution as 'all he did was throw money at it', ok so we'll NEVER vote for any politician who offers to throw money at us, ahem that's all of Labour's promises blown away then!
The truth is that Boris is a charismatic, brilliant but, impetuous and thereby, like all of us, a flawed human being, but unlike most of us, one who wears his emotions on his sleeve for all to see. We can leave it there. But when others do wrong it's their fault let's be clear about that.
Most of the reasons given against him are emotional, most of the good reasons for having him back, at least till the next election are practical. He is undoubtedly a genius who has the confidence of the money markets and would in all probability be the safest pair of hands to guide our economy out if this hole that ironically, his dismissal created, and into the next general election.
It is at that point Labour would have a legitimate chance to take over if the people still wished. All their demands for an election today are just cynical opportunism at the countries expense for their own self interest, we shouldn't heap praise on Starmer for that, maybe it says more about him than Boris.
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Re: Another one out
- Penny Williamson (22nd Oct 2022 12:18:18)
Er I think you are wrong about Boris Johnson. I would agree that he has a sort of charisma if you like that sort of thing which I donât and he is certainly flawed and impetuous. He is also a serial liar and let us be clear why he lies, not to protect other people but to save himself. He only âprotectedâ Dominic Cummings for as long as Cummings was useful to him. As soon as Boris felt that Cummings could not be controlled by him he dumped him resulting in dire consequences for Boris. He only protected Ian Paterson by lying because he felt it was politic to do so at the time. As soon as it became clear that this decision created an enormous backlash that forced the government to make a spectacular U-turn Boris dumped him. Partygate was a series of lies for which Boris is still being investigated by the Privileges Committee and this could take months. For this reason alone what makes anyone think Boris would be a good choice for PM. Finally and this really was the last straw was the Pincher affair and I have elaborated on this in a previous post so will not repeat it. Boris is certainly not brilliant or a genius and I think the Conservative Party would be finished in the short term if he was brought back to be PM.
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (22nd Oct 2022 14:07:37)
I never suggested Brexit was the tories, but now you mentioned it, the euro scepticism group within that party forced David Cameronâs hand to call the referendum which then was based on lies and the result was actually not binding which we then decided to bind.
Years later no one can list one factual benefits other than sound bites of taking back control, control from what? We left a co operative that greatly benefited us and we have been losing since.
Brexit was the biggest step down in the âgreatâ of Great Britain since the Suez crisis when the UK no longer was regarded as a superpower.
The direction is consistent, itâs a race to the bottom, we can even land a trade deal worth talking about and both the EU and America have closed the door on us hoping not to catch whatever disease of failure we have inherited.
Aside that, yes the vote was democratic. Not everyone whom voted to leave was a bigot but every bigot definitely votes to leave.
Putin was delighted with the result
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Re: Another one out
- paul (22nd Oct 2022 17:15:35)
Hi,
If we really care who runs our U.K. democracy, jog on...
It does not work in our society, or ever in the West of the world.
The democracy "way of living", in a population that was invented by the Ancient Greeks, but even then "equality" was not allowed.
The only way our country can survive for our children's future is as it used to be a "Kingdom".
We now have new King, and Council, for our United Kingdom successfully. Why not use them?
We have the entrepreneurial brains, and business knowhow.
Also the best Universities, and people culture.
Our country is unique in the world, and many continents envy us. This is compared to rule of the people around the globe.
Let's not live our lives on a downward slope of current poor politicians, they are no benefit to us, or our future families.
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Re: Another one out
- A F (22nd Oct 2022 17:27:37)
The other question is if Boris gets back in does he get another load of money to re-decorate the flat!!!
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (23rd Oct 2022 22:39:59)
Borisâs latest lie is another classic, I had 102⊠yeah right, yet you desperately scrambled over to both Sunak and Mordant telling them to give up as your defo going to winâŠ
Now the guy that couldnât head Liz Truss is going to become prime minister.
Am wetting myself, as is every other country in the world
Is enough people going to pull their heads out of reading the daily mail and finally get rid of these clowns as my cat could do a better job than this crew of donkeys
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Re: Another one out
- Joe (24th Oct 2022 08:20:49)
Sam it is obvious why the Tory membership picked liz Truss over Richie Sunak it was based on looks nothing else. Hopefully it will not be left to looks this time.
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Re: Another one out
- Brit (24th Oct 2022 10:03:07)
Well reading through this thread itâs quite obvious no one has any idea whatâs going on in Westminster because their not in government. All the posts are just guessing or based on what is in the media. But one that takes the biscuit is Sam why do you live in this country if you hate it so just move to a country where your viewâs are more in tune. Your rants come over as quite abusing you seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder or your very young with not much experience in life. Never mind perhaps a spell in the armed forces would do you good. Looks as though we are going to have a new PM so watch this space. If the people of this country donât like it next year they can do something about it vote democratically for whoever you want as they did in the referendum then we all have to stand by the result not keep on complaining.
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Re: Another one out
- Joe (24th Oct 2022 10:49:46)
The current shambles in government does not make anyone proud to be British we are the laughing stock of the rest of the world and our economic outlook is bleak. The only way forward for the moment is higher taxation for those who are earning it.
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Re: Another one out
- Pete (24th Oct 2022 11:16:20)
Brit - I think you will probably find that Sam actually cares about this country a great deal hence highlighting the obvious faults that have been made and are still being made. I wonder why you believe that anyone with a view different to yours is just guessing or being led by the media. Oh the arrogance of age.
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Re: Another one out
- William (24th Oct 2022 11:32:15)
This thread sums up the issues really, we have 2 sides both dedicated to the cause, they can see all the wrong in the other side, and no wrong in their own side. Any wrong that they can see is minor and forgivable, but completely unforgivable if the exact same is done by the other side.
With most people it's either full on tribalism or apathy. No one wants to work together to find middle ground that suits the majority, or understand that everyone circumstances are different and hence they have different views, if something fits in their view or circumstances, it therefore must apply to everyone.
Take Brexit as an example, the result was 52/48 of those that voted with a 72% turnout - which equates to 37 Brexit, 35 remain, 28 don't knowdon't care. If you pick any one option, most of the population will not be for it. Yet still most people will argue for one or the other, without thinking any further. Whilst we still seek to boil things downs to binary outcomes, and simple majorities instead of coalitions and working together to find common and sensible middle ground, things will continue downhill.
Maybe one day we will get past this, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: Another one out
- er (24th Oct 2022 18:46:11)
I hope we will all now congratulate Rishi and wish him the very best as he takes over as our newly elected PM. As we put nation (and all those who reside here) before party politics in these tricky global times, let's all get behind him and hope he can steady the ship, at the very least until the next election due in 2025. Good luck.
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (25th Oct 2022 18:49:24)
The country is consigned to plodding on downwards spiral like a wounded zombie because no party is willing to address the elephant in the room that caused it all, and no amount to hot air âletâs get on with itâ will fix the problems as no other country wants to get on with it with us.
We fell on our own sword and are to stiff and proud to fix it, steaming head long proud into decades of being like for like well behind the place we could have been
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Re: Another one out
- paul (26th Oct 2022 21:13:24)
Hi,
Give our Prime Miniter a chance. He wears bespoke clothing, and shoes.
Likes sweets, also Twix bars, and fat Coke-Cola.
His teeth have 7 fillings...what's not to like...?
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (27th Oct 2022 21:10:11)
Yeah, wish him well etc... point is we got demoted and there is a glass ceiling over his and everyone's head that's pushing down... so his or anyone else's scope for fixing things is limited
We can win things, but only within the lesser league now, we have gone from top 5 to soon being as powerful or significant as Canada in 15th give it a few years and Singapore will overtake us
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Re: Another one out
- er (27th Oct 2022 22:10:44)
But Sam, isn't that what we wanted, we had it too good and all that, maybe white historical guilt can now begin to be be assuaged and we can get back to just being part of the chasing pack? Sounds good to me, poor but with peace of mind maybe worth more than guilty stress. No more world beating Great Britain or Voyages of Conquest, just happy serfdom, Wednesday half price at Beefeater and our buy to lets:)
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Re: Another one out
- outsider (27th Oct 2022 23:05:12)
I agree with Sam. Stodgy old, too proud GB shot itself in the foot thinking it was better than the rest and got 'get on with it' without their biggest trading partners by getting 'oven ready' Brexit done. Now we are poorer and declining economically on top of massive global inflation. The conservatives were never going to lead Britain out of austerity, The Labor party would not have much left to work with once given the chance. Count your pennies, but some candles and warm clothes because there is no grand plan of prosperity on the horizon.
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Re: Another one out
- Realist (28th Oct 2022 11:30:10)
Just seen EU in trouble inflation spiralling had to raise interest rates. Same everywhere but we have loads of jobs going vacant so we can have two or three jobs to make ends meet same as Lewis Hamilton dad did for his son .
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (29th Oct 2022 00:29:12)
The comparison you should be making is not us v them as it is bad globally, the comparison should be two lines, the line we are on now versus the line we would have been on had we not left. Our current part is the lower line.
If your want to do an us v them comparison then look up thr G7 data, we are 7th, plenty of other lines of data out there to suggest factually we are on a bigger downward curve than others and itâs this curve that is leading us away from the top to mid table.
Brexit, Boris, Trusx etc, the rest of the world is pissing itself at us and itâs embarrassing and our own fault
Lead by donkeys and tabloid lies, too bad that a majority bought into it and still 6 years later. No one can factually present one single good thing thatâs came out of itâŠ
We took control of our borders for example, since then the numbers have hit records, am not anti immigration etc am just highlighting one area many people thought would improve and yet no.. not at all.
Those that voted to leave should be asking questions why what they wanted and got promised never happened rather than put there heads in the sand or even worse, lash out at those whom wanted to remain whom so far have been proved absolutely correct
Itâs not going away, ever and itâs not going to get fixed either in a generation,
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Re: Another one out
- Happy person (31st Oct 2022 16:27:13)
By the looks of it we are much better of outside of the EU things are going from bad to worse in the block. If we had stayed in we would not have been better of the French would still be letting the people come across probably more so because they donât want them. Brussels would be overruling our courts a lot more we wouldnât stand a chance. I see our inflation is lower than theirs anyway so Iâm a happy chap.
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Re: Another one out
- Bernard (3rd Nov 2022 17:20:34)
Its going from bad to worse here. We are now in the worst prolonged recession since the 1930s, per the Bank of England today. We have reliance on food banks and charities to feed people (including those working), inflation at 9%, an average of 31% of children in poverty, insufficient GP services, insufficient dental services, insufficient access to legal aid, lots of additional red tape, overheads and delays for our exporters, higher cost of goods imported for the same reason, we are a laughing stock around the world because of the Truss administration crashing our economy and our currency (ringing-in a new wave of cuts - what is there left to cut?) and, then there was Partygate and... and....
Coronavirus and the Ukraine invasion (a real invasion) have affected most economies, but at the end of June, the GDP in the Eurozone was 1.9% higher than before the pandemic, whereas we were in a worse position, by parliament's own figures (look it up). It is delusional to think that we are better-off post Brexit. Italy and France have better growth than us - only Germany is down because of its reliance on Putin's gas (but still better than us).
Brexit promised 'control of our own borders', for those who were obsessed by immigration. How's that going then?
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Re: Another one out
- passfield resident (3rd Nov 2022 21:26:11)
Very well put Bernard. We were lied to by the leaders of the Brexit campaign, especially about immigration, which was the pivotal issue for a lot of people, especially the more bigoted UKIP supporters. The most prominent politicians who were happy about Brexit were Trump, Putin and Farage- three people who have done nothing good in their lives.
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (3rd Nov 2022 23:07:24)
Immigration is problem all counties are dealing with and those coming to England are not coming because itâs some golden cherry they are coming here as they itâs the only other language they have grip of or as they have friends and family here, the numbers landing and staying legally or not to England are nothing compared to France, Italy or Germany.. maybe if over history we hadnât of forged an empire spreading the language we wouldnât be that attractive in the first place. History coming to bite us.
If it was in the other foot you wouldnât give a toss if they departed Dover for France, many of you would be quietly happy so think like the French for second, A they keep many more than we do, and B we are not in the club EU anymore so immigrant going over the channel is a good thing for them, itâs both out of France and out of EU so job done and au revoir.
Telling the French itâs there fault isnât the solution, thatâs like the French telling the Spanish or Italians itâs there fault and every other counties blaming the country they past through to get to the destination they want all the way down the dozen odd countries or more these people pass through.
Itâs small minded nonsense.
We used to have too table in decisions in Europe and be a part of something big, but we shut that door and told them to clear off⊠saying now we have gone it will fall apart⊠has anyone else left?? No⊠just us⊠idiots
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Re: Another one out
- er (4th Nov 2022 00:20:31)
Interesting phrase, why do you use 'history coming to bite us' Sam?
You seemed later to call Brexiteers small minded and idiots but you also seem to understand in your own analysis that no country actually wants (or I would add knows how to cope with) mass migration and even remaining countries in Europe are pleased to push them somewhere else, our good remainder friends in the compassionate EU no less. I think that's the truth, it's not universally welcomed but most of us realise it's a burden we have to share out of duty or humanity and look at the many positives.
I think the truth is none of us really know for sure how this will end up so we can only offer our qualified support but acknowledge the implicit risks of an untried movement of people's on this biblical scale in modern times, personally I'm comfortable with England or Europe being a melting pot I have made many great friends and colleagues from all sorts of backgrounds and races, but then I live in the wealthy south and have never lived in Bradford or some other places up north where the media keep focussing on integration issues mainly among different religious groups. I think integration may take a few generations, having said that things can go backwards too such as the inter religious hatreds rearing their heads in India under the right wing Hindhu leadership.
Still I guess there is no point any if us worrying about the future, it hardly ever turns out how we expect!
Passfield resident, I'm guessing you think your one of the really good guys as do all Remainers, though i've noticed Remainers as a generalisation are quick to spout snide things about the majority who disagreed with them, singling out the usual suspects, which is not really nice politics at all, your comments others on the other side on this occasion wasn't what I would call really nice either!
This delusion between good and bad, left and right by those on the left of centre always reminds me of a certain YouTube video circulating where there are some protestors gathering and the interviewer asks them what their message is, they say it's a message of love and peace to everybody, the whole world should be nice to each other and accept our differences and be kind etc etc. The interviewer then asks them what they think of Trump, they scream 'he's scum a horrible piece of trash, someone should shoot him in the face we hate him' and no amount of reasoning can make then understand the irony!
Anyway on that note, love and peace to all, whether you agree with me or not!
PS the EU is not united, far from it, they have been trying to agree simple things but can't get any unanimity, the latest being the setting of energy price caps, totally bogged down by different self interests and going nowhere..
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (4th Nov 2022 22:51:03)
Well said ER,
Great use of the words "seem" "Biblical" "Bradford" "Hindhu" and then peace and love without really making any point at 00:20 in the morning.
I'd like to hang out dude but stop swaying around saying one thing by saying 40 different things and committing to none.
How many beers did you have bud? and do you surf?
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Re: Another one out
- passfield resident (5th Nov 2022 07:56:05)
er-you would need to explain your objections to what I was saying in English that makes sense-I don't have a clue what you are on about
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Re: Another one out
- er (5th Nov 2022 14:13:14)
Sam, as Ian asked on the thread about the environment, please count me in for a pint of whatever you drink, I don't surf dude but I could turn up on my penny farthing, bought it new back in the day!
Really the points you referred to in my last post are real issues, biblical levels of immigration, integration issues in places like Bradford, rising Hindu nationalism etc, some can face them in calm debate (then early resolutions are possible) some can't (then later knee jerk solutions become popular, history teaches us that) we all need decide which we are, avoiders or realists I don't claim to offer the solutions in this short debate, but I can see through the fog and identify the issues and risks, I have no idea whether anybody even wants to do anything about them!
Passfield resident then please let me try and help you understand my English (although interestingly you didn't say that you couldn't understand my English, but you chose to say my English doesn't make sense, interesting change of perspective that creates!)
Still I am always happy to help, it's not easy, I have to balance offering my opinions to a debate with the capacity of my audience to comprehend them, as Sam referenced, at twenty past midnight the task is made more complicated especially in a village as diverse as Liphook, so without further ado, a snapshot of some phrases in your earlier short one paragraph post that caught my attention, sorry to be pedantic but I aim to help, if anyone wants to read it for themselves it's 5 posts up at the time of typing ...
'...lied to by the leaders of the BREXIT campaign...'. When I disagree with people my natural impression is that they have a different opinion to me or have made a mistake, I just give them that benefit, yet I have often noticed the Remain Camp politicians and their supporters in general are quick to accuse their victorious opponents of lying which IMHO brings politics into the gutter and is unnecessarily confrontational, as conclusive evidence of lying is seldom provided, hence the allegation is supposed to stick purely by implication, where there is smoke etc. Another explanation is that the word is being misused in politics or is poorly understood by the left and Remainers, still this is a red flag to me.
'...especially the more bigoted UKIP supporters' I have noticed the remain camp frequently accuse their victorious opponents in other parties of being bigoted which IMHO etc (see above)....
'...three people who have done nothing good in their lives...' I have noticed the Remain Camp and it's many supporters (48%) often use childish hyperbole to belittle leaders of political parties they disagree with on a personal level (ad hominem) which IMHO etc etc...
'...especially about immigration...' I have noticed the Remain Brigade seem to believe they lost the vote due mainly to Brexiteers foolish or gullible fears about immigration, this is condescending and plain wrong, but it's all they can think of, it can't possibly be to escape the EU and it's condescending club.
You see, this is all fairly standard background noise that really misses debating the issues, or belittles Brexiteers for mentioning them, the 52% didn't vote 'out' happily or because they are gullible racist haters who were lied to by bigots etc etc, even if the 48% are desperate to believe that, the truth is probably more that the 52% voted out because they were sick of being condescended to and silenced by the self righteous left with all their adjectives here and in the EU than because of immigration, the Remainers don't forget only wanted unlimited EU immigration, BREXIT is about even handed immigration, an inconvenient truth!
So by my logic, we have the Remainers 48% and their ilk to thank for any current economic problems related to leaving the EU as we left the EU to escape them and being ruled by their condescending attitudes, not to avoid doing business with the world per se.
Happy to have cleared that up for youđđđ
PS that's proper debate!
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Re: Another one out
- passfield resident (5th Nov 2022 15:08:11)
That's rambling, one-eyed, incoherent, badly argued nonsense.
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Re: Another one out
- Ian (5th Nov 2022 17:20:55)
My goodness er, that was boring. Apparently in the social media/online age the average attention span for text is about 5 seconds so you probably lost most by the first paragraph. Unfortunately I waded through and wasted considerably more time, I feel a bit of my life has been stolen!
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Re: Another one out
- er (5th Nov 2022 17:38:55)
Don't worry about it, just stick to the soundbites and I'll wear them as a badge of honour. I kept that shortđ
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Re: Another one out
- Sam (5th Nov 2022 22:01:26)
The current poll percentages if the referendum happened today is 55% remain and 45% leave... odd that?
Maybe it's time the people decided again, being a democracy, we vote for our political leaders ever 4 years it's already been 6 years since the ref let's follow it up and decide again :) as it wouldn't be democratic to deny the people the choice.
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Re: Another one out
- Resident (6th Nov 2022 08:40:48)
Sam even if the MPs all voted to re join before or after another referendum, I think that there is still a large amount of money still in dispute from when we finally left. The EU would then require us to go through a waiting period. I do not think it is as simple as re joining a club with lapsed membership. The flashpoint will be if there is another referendum for Scotland to leave the UK they will want to rejoin the EU and that would present even more problems.
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Re: Another one out
- I (6th Nov 2022 09:12:37)
I think the public have shown they cannot be trusted to make important decisions about the national best interests! Brexit, Johnson, Corbyn, Truss all won through public support (Corbyn & Truss both didnât have the support of their parliamentary colleagues but became leaders through the support of mass membership, made their respective parties unelectable). The public very often do not make the right choice, no doubt if we had a referendum to bring back hanging the general public would vote for it despite it being the wrong choice. Democracy has been corrupted by the internet, we need an alternative !
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Re: Another one out
- er (6th Nov 2022 10:31:43)
We have democracy and fixed terms because the people we should be most scared of are our leaders. It may be rubbish but it's for our own good. I'll leave it there as I'm trying to be brief!
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Re: Another one out
- Oldie (6th Nov 2022 10:35:49)
As I was the original poster and I wasnât going to contribute any more but reading the considerable amount of posts I just wonder where on earth people get their statistics from most posts are completely just conjecture no proof whatsoever. We have all been here before history makes good reading. But I think the public no what they want itâs the people behind the doors of Whitehall that cause all the problems they wonât listen to the public and block decision making. This country is a good country good people very responsible people we ARE respected for our fair play thatâs why emigrants want to come here if France was as good they would stay there but they are not treated as well there they canât get rid of them quickly enough so much for the EU . Never mind everyone has their own opinion so nothing changes.
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