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Petersfield festival
- Bella (29th Aug 2022 15:58:37)
Yesterday I attended petersfield Festival, I had my inhaler but did not help my asthma, I needed a nebuliser but their was no st John ambulance or medical provision in place. I attended Petersfield UTC and the nurse informed me that event organisers should follow something called the purpleguide. The NHS is really struggling and there are events with large crowds without any event medical provision. Such a shame petersfield Council cannot follow Liphook parish Council who always get the wonderful volunteers of St John ambulance.
Bella
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Marc (29th Aug 2022 17:21:02)
The councils should lead by example.But I don't think Liphook parish Council use St john ambulance neither anymore. Only time I see them now is carnival night.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Barbara Easton (30th Aug 2022 08:33:31)
I may be wrong but there is a quite a large charge to getting in the St. John’s ambulance to attend an event. I would have thought though at a festival gathering with thousands of young people there would have been emergency first aid.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (30th Aug 2022 10:20:48)
Whilst I have every sympathy with anyone who becomes ill at an event I think it is a little unfair to blame in this case Petersfield Town Council for not providing the services of St John's Ambulance. The event is run by Hometown Events and it was probably thought not necessary to provide First Aid as Petersfield Urgent Treatment Centre is open 12 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days per year.
Petersfield Community Hospital,
Swan Street, Petersfield,
Hampshire, GU32 3LB.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Flur Harwood-Jones obo Hometown Events (30th Aug 2022 14:07:28)
Hi Bella!
Thank-you for your feedback.
As the one of the organisers AND lead first aider for the event, I would have been more than happy to help you without any hesitation. That said, I mustn't dilute the effective advice that the marshall gave to you as if I were treating you and your inhaler was having a little effect with taking 1 puff every to 30-60 seconds for 10 puffs, rather than waiting for an ambulance, us/your partner taking you to an emergency treatment centre would be our next step so you could get prompt medical care.
We submit all our event management plans well in advance to all local authorities and these have been approved in advance - these also include our emergency/medical care plans based on the advice laid out in The Purple Guide for the event industry by HSE. So whilst as event organisers we have a duty of care to each and every person coming through the event, we are not obliged to have a professional medical team on site. The suggestion of 2:1000 first aid responders to attendees at an event is always adhered to as we have 5 first aiders on site
I hope this answers your question and if there's anything further I can help with, we can continue this conversation offline via email privately.
Flur Harwood-Jones obo Hometown Events
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Re: Petersfield festival
- J (30th Aug 2022 17:54:06)
It's the event organisers duty to maintain public safety and they must complete a risk assessment.The purple guide are guildlines and it is not a legal requirement to follow those guidelines.I have been in the Event medical industry for 6 years and by experience their should be a PHEM E First aider present but it's not a legal requirement and I do not know their previous training as their are many different types of first aiders from a FaW to Freuc 5. At the same time tho they should not rely on NHS Ambulances as I have had a patient in respiratory arrest and waited over a hour for a Ambulance and having medical cover does reduce the burden on the NHS. But atleast they provided first aiders as I know many organisers who do not offer any first aid at all. I suggest maybe emailing the organiser and ask what first aid training they have received because they could be a FREC first aider that can offer a range of interventions. I would not assume and get facts before you post such a comment. It can also depend on the type of crowds and ages as I covered a festival in Surrey this weekend and it was a mature family festival but I've also covered festivals that I've called in as significant Incident due to the volume of patients due to drug misue. I do hope you have recovered and you are well tho.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Cody (30th Aug 2022 22:57:47)
It was a decent family event!. Don't attend if you are going to moan!. Petersfield has a urgent treatment centre with decent capacities.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (31st Aug 2022 09:15:15)
Thank you Flur Harwood-Jones for your very comprehensive and excellent response. The Petersfield Festival was absolutely fantastic and well done to Hometown events for all their splendid effort and hard work in organising it. If people have concerns these are best resolved by contacting the organisers directly and not aired on a social media site.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- PR (31st Aug 2022 16:09:55)
Penny Williamson ~ what then is the point of a Social Media sight ~ heat and kitchen ???
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Dan (31st Aug 2022 19:43:35)
Hi Bella,
I hope you are well?. As someone who works in A&E we do appreciate large events to have a medical team. But maybe they had first responsers such as FPOS or FREC Responders within their team?. I would suggest to the festival to make sure they have malpractice insurance in place and a small treatment tent with medical gases and a defibrillator considering the size of the event. St john ambulance is not really a community based charity anymore and focus on larger events and direct frontline assistance to the NHS but their are many event medical company's in Hampshire.
I would suggest emailing Home festivals first before posting online. There are many factors on what medical requirements such as volume of public attending, if alcohol is being served and the type of crowds.
But event organisers should not rely on local NHS resourses and should make sure they have a suitable medical plan.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Al (31st Aug 2022 20:30:34)
Well I really enjoyed the evening entertainment, it was a well organised festival and can't wait for next year.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (1st Sep 2022 10:48:11)
PR Social Media when responsibly used is a good thing for obvious reasons. However I feel that before complaining on Social Media it is important to have all the facts and the only way to do this is to make direct contact with the people or organisations involved, using Social Media as a last resort if problems are not addressed or resolved. It is not a question of “heat and kitchen”.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Dan (1st Sep 2022 12:26:52)
Penny I agree but big festivals should not rely on NHS resources. I can see both sides of this argument. I was at Happy Days festival last weekend and they had a treatment centre with a nurse and medic with a ambulance and around the same size as Hometown festivals.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (1st Sep 2022 12:48:31)
Thank you for the info Dan. Can you tell me who supplied the nurse and the ambulance?
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Dan (1st Sep 2022 14:18:45)
I don't know the organisation who provided the cover, I think they may of been Red Cross.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Marc (1st Sep 2022 19:53:39)
There are loads of Event medical providers In the area:-
South Coast Medics- Lindford
T-Medics - Woking
TIO Medical Group- Liss/Liphook
Polaris - Fareham (countrywide)
Z medical- Havant
Star Medical - Aldershot
St John ambulance- Haslemere
List goes on and on
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Sam (1st Sep 2022 21:04:31)
Event organisers fulfilled their duties, legally and beyond.
A Nebuliser is one of possibly a hundred possible devices that it would have been "good" to have but not required, should they have had a portable MRI lorry? Do we need to require a full portable Hospital with Consultants at the ready to every event? How much damage would it cause the NHS to move resources away from the centres designed to handle everything... we don't have that many health professionals, many of them have left which means the problem isn't local, its systematic and not those blamed in this post.
This post is a non story, the victim here is the event organisers and council having been publicly portrayed initially in a bad light and if it wasn't for their own fair clarification of it we would have all walked away thinking its unsafe to go to events and this event is poorly setup which is the opposite of the truth.
If the original poster directed this towards the legal requirements rather than the council or event then fine, but that's not what happened so am not buying into the damage this has caused a blameless and well prepared event.
We can not afford our bills let alone every single condition that might occur in a public setting, you were fully protected with a system and if you don't like it speak to the system not the participants of it.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- J (1st Sep 2022 22:05:08)
Sam,
Even tho I believe Bella could of used other routes of channels , I have worked in the Event medical sector and with my experience I believe it should be a legal requirement?. I've been to similar sized festivals that have been upgraded to significant Incidents.If Bella Symptoms worsened then sabutimal and maybe 1 milligram in 1000 adrenaline could make the difference between life and Death. NHS trucks are overwhelmed and many organisations make sure there are SALM drugs available for the medical team to administer including a AED , CD cylinder and a Tech kit with ILS resus kit. I have had patients in respiratory arrest at similar sized events and waited 40 minutes previously for a Ambulance and without SALM drugs and a BVM with a Ijel that patients airway would not be maintained.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (2nd Sep 2022 09:34:20)
J You seem to have completely missed Sam's point. You say "I believe it should be a legal requirement?". That is exactly what Sam is saying. Petersfield Town Council and Hometown, the organisers of this event, should not be blamed. Social Media while useful in many ways should be used responsibly and as a last resort not the first. Always contact the organisers/people responsible and address your concerns and make sure of your facts. If these concerns are not met and you have all the facts, then that is the time to use social media otherwise reputations can be needlessly sullied.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- J (2nd Sep 2022 11:28:35)
Hi Penny,
I am not missing the point, It's not a legal requirement correct but it is good practice guildlines. I am not blaming the event organiser at all even tho it is sensible to have medical cover at large events.I am just saying that if something goes wrong then the event organiser would be looking at legal proceedings. It is not against the law but technically its a grey area. I remember a few years back when a festival went south in Portsmouth and inviduals ended up with prision sentences and fines. I am not taking sides as event organisers are there to make profits like any other enterprise but a kind warning to maybe consider it in future events. Just follow the purple guild and UKEMT guildlines and then everyone is safe and sound.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Liam (2nd Sep 2022 13:44:49)
The original poster seemed to be saying “ there was no medical provision” in place at the festival. The event organisers appear to be saying something different. Perhaps it was not clear at the time there was provision there.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Penny Williamson (2nd Sep 2022 15:58:05)
J if you read Flur Harwood-Jones's post - 2nd para - you will see that the organisers did follow The Purple Guide and there were 5 first aiders on site. The reason I said that I thought and stlll think you are missing the point is that Sam states that pressure should focused in getting the Legal Requirements changed if you feel they are not stringent enough and you seem to think the same and yet in an oblique way you appear to be directing your criticisms at the organiser by suggesting that they should take this incident as a warning. A warning about what - Hometown did follow The Purple Guide and there were first aiders on site. If you think the Legislation should be changed then direct your ire to them, not Hometown or any other organisation who carry out the required risk assessment and exercise due diligence appropriately and within the current guidelines and legislation.
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Sam (2nd Sep 2022 22:50:08)
I completely support all the improvement suggestions, but none of them are related to either the council or the organisers which is how this post started. They did a fine job and it should be noted they did a fine job.
Regarding the improvements am doubtful you can carry the premise that more medical expertise/equipment at an event = less pressure on the NHS, this is another major bugbear here.
Yes you can buy equipment but you cant just invent medical expertise, that resource comes from experience and its actually most likely when you buy in experience those people have come from the NHS for the want of a better buck and as such you have actually weakened the NHS as one of their staff refuses a shift in the core to attend your event as its better for them in the pocket.
The NHS system works, yes its terrible due to how the governments fund it compared to many other nations but the NHS is full to the top with saints to help us, why draw resource's away to a small event when you in this circumstance both a decent event system in place AND two powerhouse health centres minutes away both north and south in both Portsmouth and Guildford where EVERY medication EVERY medical professional are there 24/7
So.as said before... original post = nonsense, dry your eyes, you got looked after and you portrayed it entirely differently.. am not buying it and am not paying for a multi redundant billon dollar system either whereby every office/event/thing must have an MRI system/1000% of possible drugs and a consultant when a system already exists to protect you at a local event and funnel you up to any of 2 hospitals just 30 mins away by road.
You held the council and the event orgs out to dry and now fell silent
this is a non story
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Re: Petersfield festival
- J (3rd Sep 2022 00:17:30)
Sam and Penny have you got any experience in this industry?.
There is a whole industry of Event Medical providers who have anything from First responsers to Paramedics.Many of these inviduals are either working for the NHS on Bank or part time or have always simply stuck private.
You can justify the system as much as you wish but a festival that size should have atleast a AAP with life saving meds. I have worked in this sector and have seen the reality of what can go wrong. I'd say I've seen more serious incidents at events than frontline.
I've always worked on surrey/London events but I can 100% confirm council's that way would not accept a event that size without a ambulance crew or treatment centre. I am not blaming the organiser but EHDC for not following clear code of practices.
And Sam AAP don't carry 1000s of Drugs but they can carry a small bag of life saving medications that can give the patient a much better survival rate.
So let's make this clear that I don't blame the event organiser but the councils for accepting low capacity Medical planning.
No way would a Medical plan be authorised without suitable medical provision in London or Surrey
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Dave (3rd Sep 2022 09:04:24)
Fml 🤦‍♂️
Another yearly event now sounding like it’s going to be pulled….. and you all wonder why Liphook carnival is in jeopardy…..
To many Karen’s in this very vegan eating, gender confused, I’m offended Town!!!
Just don’t go if the medical facilities don’t match your requirements !
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Karen (3rd Sep 2022 11:02:33)
As a Karen myself the least you can insult me with is the correct usage of “ too” not “to”
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Re: Petersfield festival
- T (3rd Sep 2022 13:19:20)
Dave, whilst I empathise totally with what you say about our litigious society (what with no win no fee imported from America!), the hard facts are that IMHO public liability insurance is a no brainer nowadays for any event or group who wish to protect their members from many potential legal actions and potentially losing a lot of money. This is sadly not the 1950s where a group of mates can get together and put on a local charity event over a pint or two.
Having studied and worked in law I learnt of cases (there are probably many) where companies have gone bust due to lack of sufficient cover, but worse still there were cases where volunteer committee members of non profits were sued and in some cases lost their homes, despite believing they were somehow protected from the consequence of the decisions as committee members of a group, from decisions (or lack of proper decisions) that they or others in their group made, or ought to have made, in good faith, they often were not.
Shockingly, commercial directors of limited companies were usually afforded significantly stronger legal protection as individuals than committee members due to the veil of incorporation.
Worth noting if you sit on an unincorporated committee with any resonsibilities or are involved in any decision making affecting others with the potential for claims however unexpectedly, from the easily offended to the clumsy, the unstable and those who genuinely hurt themselves, you probably lack that basic protection for decisions you make or ought to have made etc directly, indirectly or communally, whether it's a bowls club or an international charity, despite some defences or mitigation too complex to delve into here, bottom line there is as a principle group responsibilty, worse still enforcement of any judgements could potentially fall severally upon any individual member (usually based upon known assets), yikes.
So my advice would be before joining any committee or board, always ask to see the public liability policy, what and how much it covers you all for and most importantly, does it cover your role not just the executives, if necessary get legal advice before signing up!
I know a lot of people will think that's pathetic over-kill that will scare off volunteering, I'm only discussing joining boards and committees etc, not volunteering etc per se (that's a different discussion!), so it's up to you on how you look at risk, what you have to lose etc. Bear in mind though insurance is cheap compared to your risks, so I'd ask why wouldn't they protect you for your services?
Public liability cover if you shop around, starts from a few hundred pounds for a smallish group (or it did when I last looked a few years ago). We pay more than that for car insurance and this covers a whole group of people for often very complex and worrying claims and is a cost that should be recovered easily from income/ gate receipts/ takings etc. If not, the members should still consider funding it themselves for their own protection!
PS Bear in mind it's a while, feels like 100 years since I practiced so some things may have changed, probably for the worse:)
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Re: Petersfield festival
- T (3rd Sep 2022 13:44:49)
I should add comittees or members may want to check if there is a suitable D&O policy covering their comittee members activity, not all potential claims against committee members fall under a general public liability policy, these are considerations though for each group to make for themselves, a good insurance broker or solicitor would advise, you can probably guess at my age I err on the side of extra caution and wide insurance cover! Bigger organisations should probably have all of these as standard, but smaller organisations may want to discuss it too. Before you say it, yes I must be fun to have on a comittee:)
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Re: Petersfield festival
- B (3rd Sep 2022 21:12:48)
Why should Medical cover be compulsory?. Not being funny but nothing will never occur.....We live in rural Hampshire not central London :/. Grow up 👆
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Re: Petersfield festival
- Jamie (5th Sep 2022 16:03:19)
I was at a festival with my freind a few years ago.My Best friend got spiked and ended up extremely poorly and ended up in hospital.So in my opinion if alcohol is served at a festival then their should be a Paramedic onsite. Just event organisers trying to make more profit.
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